posted February 20, 2003 03:30 AM            

That's how weezer's h*sh pipe song starts, however I can't seem to produce the sound they make at the begining, when I play it it sounds nothing like them.

Is there an exact way to palm mute?
Is that tab incorrect???

Here's another one:

7---7----9--10
7---7----9--10
5---5----7--8
* PM *

It should sound like thump thump thump thump .... When I play it it sounds skweak skweak skweak skweak ...

posted February 20, 2003 11:55 AM         

I don't know the song, so I can't tell you exactly what they are doing. But both those tab examples are the same. The second one should give you a thumpier sound than the first. Just because of the position it's played. But the chords are the same.

Make sure you have the right guitar sound. You can tell by how the unmuted stuff sounds. If the unmuted stuff sounds fine, but the muted stuff sounds wrong than it's technique. If both sound wrong, than it's probably just the sound.

I assume it's a song with distortion, so make sure you have the right amount of distortion and low end.

The pickup you use can have a large effect on the sound of the mute.
Which pickup are you using? Neck, bridge, middle or combination of two?
Is it a humbucker or single coil?
And do you have any way of knowing which one they are using on the original recording.
Try different pickups and see if that helps.

Also try different tone settings on the Guitar. Different Volume levels, etc.

Anything other than that would come down to technique.
All I can suggest on heavy distortion palm muting, is don't be afraid to really press down hard and really pick hard. The harder you press down and the harder you strum the more low end and thump you will get. Press you palm down nice and hard. If the music sounds agressive and pissed off, you should use that same attidtude and energy when you play it. Get mad at the strings and take it out on them.

Lastly using a stupid heavy pick. The thicker the better. A plank would be best. If you are using a medimum or thin pick you will get a far different sound than if you use a nice thick one.

I use Purple Tortex picks. They are super thick and are great for fast picking and thumping. You might be surprised how big of a difference the pick you use makes.

And finally lastly, use all down strokes when you strum. Really dig in hard with the pick. And try different angles on the pick. Try to strum so you are using more of the edge or side of the pick rather than just the tip.

Okay, this is the real last one.
What guage strings are you using?
The heavier the strings, the more low end they will have. It's easier to play on .009 guage strings, but they won't have nearly the low end as some 10's or 11's.
Are you using 9's?

Good luck

Let us know if any of that helps.

[This message has been edited by TomN (edited February 20, 2003).]

posted February 21, 2003 01:25 AM         

Some guitars are naturally easier to palm mute on than others - especially for the A and higher strings. I can easily palm mute on my SG, but on my Les Paul I can have trouble getting the A string to get the right sound.

A lot of the most dramatic palm muting is done with heavy distortion. On the other hand, too much compressed, low volume distortion might sound unimpressive. Also, to get a totally visceral effect, you'll want to get the thump that only a closed-back 4x12 cab can give you. It should still sound basically right on an open-backed 1x10 combo at bedroom volume, but it'll FEEL right (and sound amazing) with a cranked, high gain amp into a 4x12! (If you don't have that equipment don't feel jealous - I don't own a 4x12 and can't exactly do that in my apartment anyway, either!).

Finally, to get a heavier sound (if that's what you're after, I don't know the song), many bands tune down below standard tuning. Try tuning all the strings down a step lower (down to D). Some bands even tune down to C! Even a half step lower (Eb) might help.

posted February 23, 2003 08:58 PM            

Umm, I still kinda new on guitar definitions so...

<i>The pickup you use can have a large effect on the sound of the mute.
Which pickup are you using? Neck, bridge, middle or combination of two?
Is it a humbucker or single coil?</i>

could you explain what all this is??
oh, and how do you tune to Eb??

posted February 23, 2003 09:16 PM            

-0-0-|
-0-0-|
-0-0-|

I mean how can you palm mute nothing??

posted February 24, 2003 09:52 AM         

There is no rigth or wrong pickup unless you are trying to copy a specific sound. Otherwise you can just use whichever one you want.

But in general a Bridge Pickup that is a humbucker will give you the best heavy distorted palm mute sound. Or I should say the most common.

For most of the stuff you like, you should be safe with using the bridge pickup. But there really is no law against using a neck pickup as well. The middle pickup will tend to sound a little thin. They are usually single coil and don't have the omphff.

To tune to E flat you need to tune all the strings a half step lower than normal. It's a very common tuning nowadays so even a lot of tuners offer it as an option. If you don't have a tuner that will tune to Eb you can tune to standard pitch with your tuner and than tune each string down a half step by ear.
So instead of tuning the A string to match the 5th fret of the E string, tune it to match the 4th fret, and then tune the other strings to it.

Or when tuning using the tuner, tune the low E while fretting the first fret. This will tune the string to Eb when played open. You can do that for all the strings.

Try all of the above at different volumes, with different settings and different pickups and see what you get and what you like.

If you are still confused just ask.

posted February 24, 2003 10:05 AM         

I don't know what kind of guitar you have and the number of pickups and types vary from guitar to guitar.

What kind of guitar do you have and how many pickups are in it?

For example let's take a Fender Stratocaster or similar guitar.
In general they have 3 pickups.

The one closest to the bridge (which is where the strings come out of the body and the metal parts they lay on) Is called simply enough, the Bridge pick up.
The one closest to the neck is the, Neck pickup and the on in the middle is well, the middle pickup.

On most strats these are all single coil.
The switch is usually a 5 position switch.
Position
1. all the way down. Is just the Bridge pickup,
2. Is bridge + Middle
3. is just middle
4. is Middle and Neck
5. is just neck.

The pickup or combo of pickups you use is pretty much a matter of taste, but again there are generally excepted standards and you may want to mimic a specific sound.

The Bridge pickup will have a brighter louder sound and is used for Rhythm and lead parts that you want to be clear and distinct and bright and loud.
The Neck pickup will have a more rounded low end sound and is great for clean rhythms. It can also be used for really deep throaty leads
The middle pickups and and of the combo settings will give you more of a twang and funky sound. Good for clean or rhythmic sounds and funky sounding solos.

Of course that is a very simplistic and general description. It's up to you on how you want to use them.

The other standard pickup setup can be found on a Gibson Les Paul. This is 2 humbuckers. A Neck and A bridge pickup, no middle pickup and a 3 position switch.
A humbucker will give you a louder more beefy sound than a single coil.

A single coil is just that. One coil wrapped around some magnets. It's crisp and bright but also suffers from 60 cycle hum from using an ac outlet.
A double coil is two single coils side by side. This creates more output and volume and cancels the 60 cycle hum.
The coils can be connected in series or parrallel. Both have a unique sound. (but that's techno stuff for a different discussion).

A real common pickup configuration is a strat style but with a humbucker in the bridge instead of a single coil. With the 5 position switch working the usual way.

So let me know what kind of guitar you have, how many pickups it has, how many switches and how many positions the switches has. Also what does it have for knobs. How many and do they pull out. Some knobs pull out and give you another pickup sound.

posted February 25, 2003 01:00 AM            

I have a fender stratcoaster:

3 pickups
Volume + 2 tone knobs.
5 switch.

I didn't get the stuff about the coil, the single or double, is it the stuff that's on the back of the guitar???

And it kinda sounds familiar what you said about the serial or paralel setup and about the 60 cycle (because of the 60hz), I'm studying electronic engineer.

So when it's double coil it doesn't have the 60 cycle problem because they cancel each other???

posted February 27, 2003 01:29 PM         

It will pick up 60 cycle hum from ac circuits (120vac 60hz) It will also pick up any random noise. You can actually pick up Single Side Band Radio transmissions. I have picked up people speaking Japanese on my single coils.

Humbuckers are two coils side by side. I guess the full name is a Dual Humbucker, or a dual coil pickup. The coils are wound in such a way that when one coil is picking up the noise it's a positive singnal and when the other is picking up the same noise it's negative. Therefore the noise gets cancelled.

Also because of the 2 coils they have a higher output and sound louder and are much better for heavy distortion sounds and thick clean sounds.

The two coils can be wired 2 ways. Series or parallel. (they can also be in phase or out), the series sound gives you the highest output and heavier sound, the Parallel wiring sounds very close to a single coil but without the hum.

it's not a rule that a humbucker is better. A single coil has a very distinct and desireable sound. And the hum can be dealth with easily enough when recording.

STevie Ray Vaugh uses single coils almost exclusively. Or I should say he used to.

On a Strat you have the 3 single coils.
The 2 tone knobs are for the middle and neck pickup, the bridge pickup has no tone control. The volume is an overall volume.

There a hundreds of custom and optional wiring tricks and techniques you can do to create a unique and personal sound, all while still allowing you to hot some switches and get the original sound.

My Guitars look like Steve Morse's guitars. Swicthes and knobs all over. Almost all my Pots pull out and give me a different sound.

One of my favorite things to do is wire two humbuckers in series. This gives you a double output humbucker with a really unique sound.

I have a strat where I put a humbucker in the bridge and Neck and left the single coil in the middle. The neck and bridge are wired for normal operation and for series or parallel operation. A sound you can not get on a regular strat. In fact on a strat you can not play the neck and bridge pickup together at all, and it's a very cool sound. However it's very easy to wire that option in.

I use Seymor Duncal Hotrails. They are a dual coil humbucker that fits in a single coil spot, so no routing or cutiing is needed to fit them into a strat. And they sound awsome.

Let me know if you have any questions on wiring and if you might want to tackle some guitar modifications.

posted February 27, 2003 07:37 PM            

I think it would be awesome to modify my guitar, is it complicated?

where can I get the stuff to do it???

posted February 27, 2003 08:24 PM         

xchaos01, If you stick with playing guitar, you may later grow to really appreciate those Strat single coil sounds. There's magic in there. A stratocaster is the most famous guitar in the world. It gets a unique, beautiful sound that only a stratocaster can get. I'd say leave the strat as is (unmodified), as something you can grow into and get to know.

If you love heavy music, you'll probably want humbuckers. Ideally, you'd get a second guitar, with humbuckers in it. It all comes down to money, of course. The most famous humbucker guitar is a Les Paul, though there are lots of other options (as there are lots of other single coil guitars besides a strat).

A problem comes when you sometimes want the single coil sounds, and sometimes want the strat sounds. Then you either need to have two guitars (on w/ single coils and one w/ humbuckers) and switch back and forth, or modify one guitar that specializes in one of these styles to get some of the other style too. Or, you could get an in-between style guitar with a mix of pickup types.

Anyway, one guitar that can get both sounds is a very useful tool. I'd just recommend that you get a second, cheap guitar (like a used Squire?) to mess around with learning to modify on. I'd keep that beautiful Fender Strat as is, at least for a few years. Of course it's your guitar, lol - I'm just offering another point of view for you to consider.

BTW, I usually play humbuckers myself, but I love to pick up my strat once in a while, or for certain playing situations.

posted February 28, 2003 10:18 AM         

how do I know if my stratcoaster is serial or parallel?

dmt knows his stuff and I don't want to sound like I am challenging him, but I do want to give you some alternate advice.

Everything he said is true. If you have a nice strat, the last thing you want to do is start routering out the body and cutting up the pickguard and stuffing pickups and switches into it. I personally would have no regrets about doing that, but if you do that, there is no going back and you may regret it down the road, not only will cutting holes into the body effect the sound, it will also depreciate the value of the guitar.

That being said, there are dozens of electrical modifications you can do that will not permanantley alter the guitar. Things you can do but you will still be able (with moderate work) bring the guitar back to it's original pure strat form.

For instance:
1. You can get Dual Coil Humbucker pickups that fit into a single coil spot. You will not have to cut the body of the guitar to use these. You will get the great humbucking sound and not hurt your precious baby. They are a perfect fit. There are a few available, but I highly suggest the Seymour Duncan Hot Rail.

2. With a small switch the Humbucker can be switched from single coil to Humbucker. So not only do you not have to cut the guitar, but you can sill get the sweet single coil sound of your strat and with teh flick of a switch you can get a heavy humbucker sound. Best of both worlds right?

3. Where to put the switch?
You have a few options here. If you want to go hardcore, just buy a second pickguard. They are cheap, and you can cut it and drill it at will and than in the event that you want to go back to original, you have the original pickguard.

Another option is to use Volume and Tone Pots that have a stacked switch on them. From the outside these switches look identical to a regular switch and fit into the same hole. But if you pull the switch away from the body it switches. So you can wire your pick up to that switch.
Now with 3 pots on a strat (volume, tone and tone) You can add 3 switches without modifying the pickguard or switch at all. And make sure you keep the originals.
In theory by doing the above, you could put 3 Hot Rail humbuckers in a strat and have the ability to switch them from single to humbucking, with no cutting or drilling. Sweeeeet!

There is another option, which is my prefered method. Ask youself, how often do you ever turn the tone down on your start????? Almost never if at all right. The 2 tones on a start are passive. Meaning when all the way up, they don't add tone. All they can do is take tone away buy turing them down. They just cut high frequencies out they don't add them.
So if you remove the tone knobs, the pickups will sound identical to the way they did if the tone knobs were in and all the way up.
On almost every strat I had I removed the tone knobs and used the holes they left behind to mount a switch. You can remove one or both. And remember the bridge pickup doesn't even have a tone knob.
The other option is to remove just one tone know and wire the other one so it is an overall tone for all the pickups in the guitar.

That is just some of the things you can do. And I can walk you through it all.
However there are some tips and skills and items you will need.

Tips.
Make am accurate and detailed sketch of exactly how the guitar is wired now. Make sure you note which pickup is in which position and which direction they are mounted. Make sure you save this sketch in case you want to return the guitar to normal.

parts
You will need a small soldering iron.
And you will need average soldering skills.
A roll of 20 or 22 awg stranded wire.

All that stuff can be purchased at a Radio Shack.

All the parts can be purchased at most music stores. Or at probably a million places online. Sam-Ash music has lots of parts.

I will try to post some links of guitar part suppliers. There are millions of people who supply Standard Start pickups, switches, knobs and Pickguards as well as Replacement ones with different options. I think Warmoth is one. I just forgot how to spell the name. I will double check it. But that's all the sell is aftermarket guitar parts.

It will cost you a little money, but it's reasonable and it's worth it.

I also just find it fun to do. Not only do you get a better sounding guitar, that can have your own unique sound, but you learn some cool stuff while you are at it.

If you want to get started this is what you should do.
The first modification (and this could be the only one you need or end up wanting,) should be to put a humbucker in the bridge.
Get a Seymour Duncan Hot Rail (black or white) and replace the bridge pickup on your strat. The pickup will come with full wiring instructions and color codes for the wires.
You need to decide where you want to put the switch. I would remove the lowest tone knob and put in a small/mini DPDT ON/OFF/ON (double pull double throw) switch in it's spot. The wiring instructions for this also come with the pickup. Putting it in place of the tone know makes it a little easier to switch. It's kinda hard to reach down and pull out a know while playing. But hitting a toggle is easy.
At that time you can leave the other tone as is, or wire it so it is an overall tone.

This will be an easy modification that will give you dramatic improvement in the sound of your guitar. No more 60 cycle hum when using the bridge pickup, and lots and lots of output for heavy gain and distortion.
Your bridge pickup options will now be this.

3 position Switch position
UP-Humbucking- Full output great sound
Middle-Single Coil- original single coil sound
Down- Parrallel- Single coil sound, little more output but no hum.

If you decide you want to do it, let me know and I will walk you through it.

You won't regret it.

Later
TomN

posted March 07, 2003 09:39 AM         

xchaos, I was playing last night and thinking of the post and decided to look at my right hand as I was palm muting. One important thing about muting that I didn't even realize I was doing is hand placement.

You don't want you right palm to be out over the pickups or over the strings. It should actually be resting on the bridge and just by rolling it ever so slighty it should make the smallest amount of contact with the stings. This will give you the best mute sound.

if you let your palm go out over the strings, it just sounds like crap.

posted March 07, 2003 07:44 PM            

Muting is used not only for enhancing the tone of a chord or note, but also to prevent unwanted string noise. In general, you muting hand will rise and fall as you strike chords or single notes, and falls afterwards to stop the ringing of the strings. Rolling of the picking hand to mute is a bit more advanced, but is valuable to get a good clean sound.

You picking hand will rest on all 6 strings near the bridge (about 1/4 inch away) while 'muting'. The actual Tone of the strings that you pick while your hand is down is what you described as thumping. To modify the tone that results you can:

Pinch pick (thumb hits string immediately and briefly... after the pick does) gives that signature squeal you know and love. Hold you pick so that just the very tip extends past your thumb, and start picking, eventually you will hear the desired effect. After a little practice you will be squealing notes everywhere. Learn to “pinch” pick while NOT muting, its much easier to hear if you are doing it correctly.

Double mute (ala Zakk Wylde) Mute with the picking hand AND mute with your fret hand (try around the 3rd fret) while violently strumming the strings (pick hand mutes firmly). You can hear this on Ozzy's Down To Earth: No easy Way out.

Vibrato Mute: Mute the strings with your picking hand . Pick then note and 'shake' your fret hand. You want each of the fretted notes to bend just a little bit. This will require some time to master.... keep at it you will really like what it sounds like.

Variable Mute: Play a C major scale. Begin with picking hand pushing down at medium pressure, then as you move to each note in the scale let up the pressure a bit, with the last note in the scael note muted at all. Master this and you are ready for the rocking mute.

Rocking mute: Difficult to explain, not so easy to do at first either. Some string are muted others are not. If your picking hand is not comfortable on your guitar yet, your going to have a hard time. The picking hard will curl and un-curl while rocking back and forth (actually it move toward and away from the bridge).

Variable pressure: Press harder or lighter to vary the tone and length of the notes. Light means hand is hovering just above the strings (barely touching them at all). Hard is pushing firmly, Not too hard… just enough so that your hand does not actually bend the strings near the bridge.

I will see if I can get some samples on my site for you to hear this in action.

Keep playing, it does get better.

JEFF_SE